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Subject: Re: Team AMIGA Wish List (LONG)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 15:55:29 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Andreas Mixich)

[e-mail] wrote about "Re: Team AMIGA Wish List (LONG)" on
"21-Mar-1996 17:53:10" at zer.COMP.SYS.AMIGA.PROGRAMMER:


> Mui... I would think.

Not anyone likes MUI.....

> Or get CygnusEd (Elastic Reality, probably would like to get

This one is

a) outdated
b) not fully styleguide-compilant
c) has some bad habits in configuration (Install DOS/AREXX command
   manually)
d) is one of the best text-editors I know of, but that is not enough.Once,
   GoldED (for example) may do real TABS in a common way and has vertical
   block marking all should be fine. So one could like to see such a modern
   editor.....

> >     *Memory defragmentation
>
> I think there is programs which do this already (I might be
> mistaken, just a buzz in my head).

CAN'T YOU STOP IT ?? We are talking of a *NEW* OS !!!!!! And as you see
(the program _really_ exists) it is a bad idea to use hacks and
"solutions". That defrag program slows the system down a _lot_

> >     *Dynamically created chip ram
>
> You have to buy it, you can't create it from air, you know.

Very clever.....;-) He talks of base memory, that can be used as Chip Ram
or Fast Ram, the OS decides, if it needs to make more RAM to chip-mem. If
this is a wise solution.....? I would prefer an expandable amount of VMem.
Let's say up to 16 or 32 MB (for the power-user) available for some
killer-gfx-card.

> >     *Trashcan
>
> Why? Can't you use available utilities at all?

No, he want's to have a modern, up-to-date OS, that can compete with
Windows and System 7 etc.

> >     *Ability to password protect directories/volumes/ or on boot-up
>
> Lots of possibilities in the public domain.

Will AT be able to sell an OS if they have to say: "Our OS is very pure, in
fact, you have to get all comfort from others..... ?? Our OS is just 'Half
an operating system' ?"

> >     *Abort gadget for the 'disk copy' and other requesters
>
> Thats `Cancel' BTW, and again it's the programmers fault.

No ! Have you ever made a COPY on Workbench....Here we see your problem:
You think an OS programmer is not a programmer. It is, in fact, the
programmers fault. But of the OS programmer. ;-)

> >      Iconify gadget on the WB menus
>
> ??? I would like to see Menufy and Iconify which remebers their
> statuses when you reboot!

Yes, this is nice. Could be expanded to some state of freezing the system
and shut itdown. When you switch it on, all is like it was before you left
it.

> >    @ System debugger that is accessible from a 'Guru Meditation' with
> >           history
>
> Try a link cable and an external terminal.

Very comfortable...... Do you buy me an external terminal ? Thanks.
I think some "hotkey" when GURU would be nice to run a ROM internal
debugger. Make the serial connection available from within or so. And a
parallel for your printer.

> >      Add an 'assign' requester (AssignX) when a program needs an assign
>
> Are you totally alergic to programs which aren't supplied with
> the workbench?

We now know what is needed. So why being alergic to add it to the
Workbench ???

> >    @ Magic Menus-like menu options
>
> This should be standard, this one is good.

Why don't you use just MagicMenu ?? ;-)

> Yes, get rid of gadgets below the Dragbar. Don't let windows
> have bottom and right dragbars, they look awful.

And the scrollers ?

> Much better symmetry in making an external sizing bevel to the
> whole window, then under the top sizing have the iconbar
> (perhaps menubar, take a look at Dopus 5 and higher for some
> nice ideas) of the window and then the work area.

Yes, would be nice.

> >      Settable aspect ratio (1:1 or 2:1)
>
> Why would we want other aspct ratios than 1:1? (except for video
> work)...

You say it, why.

> >     *Cycle gadgets, button gadgets (ala MUI)
>
> Drop down cycle gadgets (menu like).

Why don't you use just Cycle2Menu ?

> >      KingCon instead of Cli/Shell with name completion (system-wide)
> >         with scroll bar for cut/paste text
>
> Agree, this should be standard.

Why, you could use KingCON, it's already there.

> >    @ Visual GUI programming ala Mac
>
> MUIbuilder seems promising, don't it?

Then try to do some GadTools stuff with it.... And a GUI Builder is *NO*
Visual Programmin Language !!! Viual languages have a GUI builder built in
as a small part of the whole thing.

> >    @*Buy the rights to a compression method and include in the OS
> >    @*Xpk support
>
> Let us use Xpk (with nice gui, better preferences and such).

Yes, here I do agree. XPK is really nice, and there was done a lot for it
already. The sources just would needed to be adapted to a (maybe) new
file-system and recompiled for a new OS and the crunchers, that use ASM
rewritten.


> >     *Adjust sound thru software
>
> Are there other ways? If I wan't sound I have to use software.
> (Thats `period'.)

An OS _is_ software. Windows has Sound support for actions (WAV-sampels)
built in.

> >    @*Virtual Memory
>
> Would be nice, needs a bit of concideration (pros and cons).

This should be a standard. There is no contra I know of. If you
need seldomly 16 MB you do not have to buy a SIMM.

> >    @*Bare bones file manager
>
> DOpus rules, esp. workbench replacement mode (except that
> ToolsDaemon don't function after that).

This could a subject of discussion. Especially the WB replacement mode
sucks ! WB has not to be replaced, it has to be enhanced. Why can't I use
the DOPUS listers insead of ASL Requesters ? Could be patched into the
library-calls ?!

> But the Bebox Filedatabase seems like a good idea (make indexes
> and then you can find files and such very fast).

This BeBox database is one of the most brilliant things added to an
operating system in the last 5 to 10 years, IMO. Really, a fully clever and
intelligent idea. I do not know if it is implemented nicley, but if you ask
yourself what a computer is in its basic, it is partly nothing more than a
database. Memory access you could call a database etc. This is such a basic
part of any computer, that it is a nice idea to include it into the OS/FS.
One could combine all databases (Address, phonebook, pictures, mods,
messagebase etc.) Cool !

> >     *Cron Program
>
> Then you have to log on and off and leave the computer on
> continually.

So what ? People who need it just do it ? Do you have another solution.

> >     *Combine 'Dir' and 'List' with interactive mode
>
> A directory program? The tab function of KingCon?

No, try 'DIR SYS: INTER'

> Now heres something which needs a bit refinement. Why don't we
> add `Open dh0: in window' and `move mouse to 400x200', `double
> click mouse', `when opening window play [soundname]' and such to
> arexx? Make it more versatile as a (global) scripting language,
> take a look at applescript and how you in fact can make scripts
> which accesses different applications, from [the record script
> place] one menu item.

To speak with your own words: Why don't you use just some PD programs ?
I say: Build it right into it.

BTW: There really is a *very*, incredibly powerfull thing like that. (There
are more, but this one is really power) 'Scripit' !

> >     *Scroll bar in the Cli
>
> ... you know the comment.

And you too. ;-)

> >    @*DiskSalve
> >    @*Reorg
>
> Very important.

Why ? Just buy them from 3rd parties....?! ;-)

> You have one program in a window which aren't active (say
> CygnusEd) on the workbench. And you are viewing a textfile in
> another window (not active, just at the top). Now you would like
> to write something in CygnusEd WHILE you are reading the file
> (at the top). Click in the CEd window (to make it active, and no
> fucking way would I like it at the top at this point) and write.
>
> Nice and easy and clean.

I absoultly do not see what you mean ? I do this with sunmouse.....

I have right now MultiView open on top of screen with your message.
Below I have my texteditor. And I write. If I want to scroll the text, I
move to the MultiView window, and even have not to click it, I just move
the mouse some pixels, scroll down and move the mouse back. You have to do
the same without sunmouse, but you have to click, additionally.

> If you dig pervertial things like sunmouse and sunkey and a host
> of other dumb utilities then use them, but I RELY on my Amiga to
> do the above, it's the MAIN advantage of the Amiga because it
> can help do some WORK. These things are impossible under Motif,
> Windows and Mac.

I use SunMouse since I have my Amiga. (4 years now) And I never ever
switched it off, except for some very special cases. WITH sunmouse I am
productive. So....make it an option in Preferences.

> Now any flames are welcome, because I really can't see why you
> could do any arguments against the above (which makes sense,
> besides releaving you of some work).

Do that: Switch on SunMouse. Open CygnusEd on WB. Open MultiView on same
screen. Now, what advatages has it to have to click the mouse ? I see no
point.

> >     *Global tooltypes, rather than pregram specific tooltypes
>
> Thats what def_icon.info are for, aren't they?

Wrong. These tooltypes have to been understood. This is not an icons work.

> Why not 32? Usually they all come out through two stereo RCA
> jacks, so really, most standard hardware deliver 32 channels at
> this point.
>
> All channels:
>
> individual panning, individual volume, individual playback.
>
> If it came out through more jacks, then we could talk about
> specifics, else I just want as many soundchannels as possible
> (with the added RTG, of course).

Fully agreed. And add GM (general midi) and a plug-in for EMU Proteus
chips. (they are not bad at all)

> >      Coprocessor for sound/graphics
>
> Use standard elements (now we should probably think about,
> MPEG/JPEG decode, 3d accelerators, graphics accelerators, sound
> chips, midichips etc. Read againg my ideas on RTG above (quite
> few lines above, in fact).

Yes, you are right. Use special cards, but do not produce own ones, like C=
did. The chips were cool, but it is cheaper to get 3rd party cards.
However, I am absoultley no hardware freak. But I guess some custom 3D
chips and so would be nice. Myself, I still would like to see HOMBRE,
but....it's dead.


> Wich goes beyond 2000 :)

:)

> No floppies, perhaps Zip, or Jaz or something from Syquest.
> (ESCOM will deliver zip drives as standard, so should AT (or
> rather Jaz drives, in my opinion)).

Yep.

> >     *Three-button mouse support built-in to the OS
>
> Works now.

But is only an option. And needs additional software to make real use of
it.

> >    @*More in-depth user manuals (AmigaDos, Arexx)
>
> Add some online manuals too. (Much more should be online,
> manuals, help, wizards, hints and tips).

Absolutly true !

> And why can't we jump on to C++, it's very easy to program,
> learn and understand.

Hmmm... C++ eats up quite a lot of resources. But I guess C++ will be of
high importance for the Amiga in the future. But: I am not very
experienced, Oberon is a nice OO language too, isn't it ? And one could
peek with one eye to the Oberon System, that links (imports) the modules at
runtime. On a PPC this could be nice. However, this is not very different
to the shared library system, I believe.

> >    @*RKM's on a CD Rom Disk with search function
>
> Agree, a CD-Rom which contains documentation would be a good
> idea, but you could do it now (yourself) it doesn't strictly
> have to be AT doing this job (it probably shouldn't, as such
> administrative work will put a strain on other efforts).

So ? Do you want to scan the RKMs ? OCR.... and so ????!! On the Amiga ?
Hahaha. It would be a illegal thing to make yourself a CD ROM with it I
guess.

> >     *Full Arexx manuals
>
> I got one with my A3000T.

There is a really nice one. However, the best IMO is only available in
German.

> Generally you have repeated yourselves too often. Also there are
> several inconsistencies in your wishes. I suggest you go through
> it one more time, and correct them.

This is true, he had repeated himself often. But you did so as well. You
only answered (mostly): "Take it from PD sources" and absolutley did not
get the point, that this is a wishlist for a *new* OS and not for some PD
programmers.

> Many of the wishes are relevant. Some I have marked in a `mee
> too way' some as `use the relevant utility'. Either way, if the
> future OS comes on CD or Zip, then AT could distribute most of
> the programs with the OS...

Well, this is a word ;-) But, it should be doen and maintained by AT.
Because it is a part of the OS. And this would mean a better integration.

> Now, I too would like to have more of these as an integrated (as
> made by AT) part of the OS, but why should AT at this time when
> is's [time] paramount, do this?

Because a standard from the very beginning stops wrong habits and bad
directions.

> of programs. Example, in dir opus you may define your own
> hotkeys for different actions. Now, have you ever defined the
> same hotkey combinations? Sometimes the results are amusing, and
> sometimes more dire.

Agreed.

> When AT gets around to include options for tear off menus,
> Sunmouse(shiver), Sunkey(shudder) and other more `nice too have'
> options, I am sure that it will be more efficient and we would
> be grateful, but for now, support those who already have done
> the effort and give them thanks!

We all do. But a bigger "thank you" is to see it implemented.

> Replys gratefully received.

Here it is :)

--
Ciao, Andreas
Internet: [e-mail]
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
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